tfw you remember that literally all programmers used to be women until men realized that it was actual intellectual work and ran them out of the field so that 17 year old shitheads could make posts on reddit about how man brains are genetically wired for programming
@somarasu I mean, the navy is bad actually
Aside from when Ada Lovelace was literally the only programmer in the world, at least in theory as the machine she wrote a procedure for was never built in her lifetime, when exactly was it that "Literally all programmers used to be women," what years specifically?
@hhardy01 it is a well known historical fact that in the early days of electronic computing, men would build the machines, and women would develop the programs that ran on them, because the actual programming was viewed as an intellectually less-demanding task. the women were referred to as "operators" and their contributions to the art were minimized.
Kay McNulty, Betty Jennings, Betty Snyder, Marlyn Meltzer, Fran Bilas, and Ruth Lichterman, were among the first programmers in history.
What we can say with accuracy is that in pre-digital times, many women found employment as "computers" and they may possibly have been the majority in this profession at times from 1600 to 1945. This carried over into the early history of digital computing with the ENIAC team and Admiral Hopper being examples.
@hhardy01 What does a draw boy have to do with programming though?
The draw boy was needed in draw looms to physically pull the draw threads, he was helping the weaver operate the loom. The draw loom is a predecessor of the Jacquard loom, so I think you are mixing a few things up here.
I see you are cherry picking factoids from wikipedia, such as:
"The ENIAC programming team, consisting of Kay McNulty, Betty Jennings, Betty Snyder, Marlyn Wescoff, Fran Bilas and Ruth Lichterman were the first regularly working programmers."
But you ignored the previous sentence:
"The first person to run a program on a functioning modern electronically based computer was computer scientist Konrad Zuse, in 1941."
That's intellectually dishonest.
@hhardy01 who said this was an argument? Zuse was a pioneer but his contributions to techniques to the field of programming were minor both in terms of lasting impact and actual real-world usage compared to the aforementioned women and that's not even considering that he was a scumbag Nazi collaborator. go take your pedantic antfucking elsewhere
@hhardy01 curious about what your motivation is here man. Is that important to you to establish that at no point have literally 100% of programmers (according to some definition or other) been female? Or are you against the spirit of the original toot explaining how women have been driven out of the field as it's grown in esteem?
@thatcosmonaut On when women dominated coding, I really loved that movie Hidden Figures, about the key work of black women at NASA in doing calculations for our early manned space mission, where they touched on this briefly with one of the plot points being about NASA getting their first mechanical computers (if I remember right they use to refer to the groups of women number crunchers as "computers" too)
@thatcosmonaut For folks asking when 'literally all women used to be programmers' ... when I first started in 1980, over 2/3 of data center developers (working w/COBOL, OLTP, mainframes and such) were women, as were most all production control ops and supervisors. At one point in the mid-80's my boss was a woman, as was her boss, as was her boss, as was her boss. Very different representation now.
@nev @landybham @jaycie @thatcosmonaut
The main reason is that computers emerged as a dominant force, leading to high-paying jobs in the industry. So women were pushed out. See:
>"Slowly but surely, as the prospects of the computer industry looked up, and the hard work done by women continued to be downplayed, American companies began hiring more men, stopped promoting women, and just like that, the unprecedented edge had by women over men shrunk into nonexistence. "
@thatcosmonaut I was at an IEEE conference on computer networks and met several female computer scientists from Iran. They told me that there is a high ratio of women studying IT in their country because men prefer "real engineering", like building bridges and machines and stuff. Typing stuff at computers is mostly seen as a woman's job, like being a secretary or so. That was really unexpected.
@thatcosmonaut the world would be a better place if men didn’t exist.
@thatcosmonaut Thanks for posting! I learned this week that it was decided at the NATO Software Engineering Conference in 1968 at Garmisch in Germany that programming was to be called "software engineering" from then on which alone played a huge part in pushing women out since engineering wasn't for women at that time and they we're facing more and more obstacles to get the necessary qualifications.
@thatcosmonaut serious feedback here: i see my 8y old daughter's coding lessons in school: it's 80% girls. In about 12 years, new developers will mostly be girls. (As a dad with daughters, this makes me happy.)
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@thatcosmonaut ...I've literally never seen anyone make that claim on Reddit. Or on Tumblr. Hell, I hung out on 4chan for a couple years and never saw it there. I've seen quite a few posts (some of them completely serious) about how *trans people* are genetically wired for programming, though. But that sounds ... very different from what you're describing.
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